doc: add grounded roadmap for infinitary syntax, back-and-forth, and Scott analysis - #41
doc: add grounded roadmap for infinitary syntax, back-and-forth, and Scott analysis#41cameronfreer wants to merge 10 commits into
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I don't think this is quite at our "connected all the way to the ground" bar yet, and there are a couple of gaps I'd like closed before we merge:
Separately, there's a fair amount of related work already in motion that I think we'll need to coordinate with rather than route around:
Given how much of this is live, I suspect merging this roadmap may need to wait until Tau Ceti is public — coordinating with these efforts will be much easier once the Zulip channel is public. This is sufficiently far outside my own expertise that I'm not the right person to give it a final sign-off. We'll need to find another reviewer with real model-theory / DST background (waiting for release should help there too — several of the people in the threads above would be ideal). :-) |
Structural review — TauCetiRoadmap #41Roadmap: Infinitary logic, Scott analysis, and the descriptive set theory of countable models Verdict (unanimous)Structurally excellent and house‑pattern‑perfect — but scoped as a multi‑year program, not a single roadmap. Cut v1 to Layers 0–2 (+ relationalization) and split the remainder into dependent sibling roadmaps. The roadmap would pass a TauCeti review on quality; it should be restructured for scope and hidden dependencies before it is handed to the pod, or the agents will hit the unscaffolded admissible‑set and effective‑DST walls mid‑run. All three reviewers reached this independently — the agreement is itself a confidence signal. What all three agree onStrengths
The core finding: scope → splitIt bundles four separate disciplines (infinitary model theory · admissible‑set theory/KP · partition calculus · descriptive set theory) into one linear roadmap.
Under‑scoped layers (difficulty hidden as bullets)L4 (admissible sets — no Mathlib KP), L9 (Silver / G₀ / Glimm–Effros — three deep dichotomies needing effective DST / Gandy–Harrington scaffolded nowhere), L8, L13. Codex adds L0 (under‑scoped for its blast radius — binding/substitution/universes/recursion principles every later theorem inherits) and L3. Critical‑path single points of failure
Distinct contributions by reviewerGemini 3.1 Pro
Codex / GPT‑5.4
Claude
Recommended actions (consensus, ordered)
Methodology notePurely AI review, three independent models given the same artifact (the full roadmap README at head |
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Thanks, @kim-em and @mrdouglasny -- these reviews are helpful. I've narrowed this PR rather than trying to patch the whole long-range program in place. The active roadmap now contains just the spine of results along the way to Scott isomorphism:
Everything beyond this is removed from the roadmap entirely (admissible sets / Barwise, invariant DST, Silver / G₀ / Glimm–Effros, Morley counting, EM / Erdős–Rado / Morley–Hanf, many-sorted, Lκλ, effective Scott analysis, and relationalization of functions/constants). These can be grouped into their roadmap PRs later with appropriate grounding details and checks for WIP. I also folded in some review points that still apply to what remains:
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@kim-em wrote:
Sounds good; happy to wait! =] |
…T roadmap Adds TauCetiRoadmap/InfinitaryLogic/ (README + Targets.lean), index entry TauCetiProject#12, and the Targets import. v1 summit is Scott's isomorphism theorem for countable relational languages; the spec is intrinsic, with cameronfreer/infinitary-logic@a1932b9 as a migration source. Targets.lean elaborates against the repo pin with only the intended sorry milestones. Cameron Freer wrote this with assistance from GPT Pro, Claude Code, Codex, lean4-skills, and lean-lsp-mcp.
…and fold in the structural-review tightenings Scopes the roadmap to the syntax → back-and-forth/Karp → coded-formula proxy/refinement counting → Scott's isomorphism theorem spine; DST/Barwise/Morley–Hanf/many-sorted/Lκλ are out of scope (separate roadmap PRs). Folds in mrdouglasny's structural review: strengthens Layer 0 (recursion/substitution/universe discipline + a universe warning), makes FormulaCode the single counting route, adds a per-layer dependency/acceptance table and compile-before-summit examples, a name-audit note, and Countable→card / Countable→Structure.CG bridge targets. Adds a 'known WIP, ownership, and boundaries' section. Targets.lean docstring narrowed; definitions unchanged. Cameron Freer wrote this with assistance from GPT Pro, Claude Code, Codex, lean4-skills, and lean-lsp-mcp.
Addresses pre-push review: rename freeVarFinset → freeVarSupport (infinitary formulas have countable, not finite, free-variable support); clarify FormulaCode is a countable coded proxy/fragment capturing BFEquiv, not a coding of all (uncountable) raw Lω₁ω syntax; note Structure.cg_iff_countable's function-symbol-countability hypothesis in the inventory; drop the word 'optional' from the out-of-scope section; fix the Layer-3 acceptance example to say it needs Layer 3 (no later layers).
…auCetiProject#55) Co-Authored-By: Claude Opus 4.8 (1M context) <noreply@anthropic.com>
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… not IsExtensionPair PotentialIso was pinned as Nonempty FGEquiv + IsExtensionPair both ways. Mathlib's IsExtensionPair quantifies over ALL finitely generated partial equivalences -- the ultrahomogeneity-flavored property -- which is strictly stronger than classical potential isomorphism (the existence of SOME back-and-forth system). Counterexample: (N, <) is isomorphic to itself, yet the one-point partial equivalence 1 |-> 0 extends to nothing whose domain contains 0, so IsExtensionPair fails; with the old definition karp_theorem and countable_potentialIso_iff_iso were both false as stated. Only the one direction previously stated in Lean (PotentialIso -> iso, equiv_between_cg's content) was true, which is why the file compiled. Now: - PotentialIso = exists a nonempty set S of FGEquivs closed under two-sided extension within S; - potentialIso_of_isExtensionPair pins the one-way S = univ bridge to Mathlib's vocabulary; - the countable Karp corollary is stated as the named iff countable_potentialIso_iff_iso (matching the README milestone) instead of an anonymous one-directional example; - README: Layer-1 bullet reworded, an API warning records the counterexample and points the dovetailing at Order.sequenceOfCofinals (equiv_between_cg as the S = univ template), milestone list gains the bridge. lake env lean green (sorry warnings only). Co-Authored-By: Claude Fable 5 <noreply@anthropic.com>
…0 milestone Open Suggested.lean with the repo-standard "README.md is definitive / this file is not exhaustive" note (settled convention: TauCetiProject#51, TauCetiProject#55, and the roadmap-writing guide) -- the previous header only pointed at README.md without the definitive/not-exhaustive language. Also state the Layer-0 realization-compatibility milestone as the named theorem realize_toLomega rather than an anonymous example: Suggested.lean exists so contributors converge on names, and the README already pins this name in its milestone list. lake env lean green (sorry warnings only). Co-Authored-By: Claude Fable 5 <noreply@anthropic.com>
…parallel types
kim-em's review asked that the roadmap cite the open Zulip discussion on the
L_{infty,omega} formula API -- where the single-core-vs-parallel-types
question is unresolved -- and say why this roadmap commits to parallel types.
The Known-WIP section now links all four threads he flagged (infinitary-
formula API, Cantor-Bendixson analysis, Naming Suslin Spaces + mathlib4#32742,
many-sorted model theory) and states the reason for the parallel-inductive
prototype: Scott analysis wants structural recursion and countability on a
first-class N-branching syntax rather than a fragment predicate, while Karp
needs the universe-indexed branching -- still flagged as a roadmap-local
prototype that does not preempt the Zulip resolution.
Live Zulip links only: the leanprover-community archive slug for these topics
did not resolve, so no archive links are guessed at.
Co-Authored-By: Claude Fable 5 <noreply@anthropic.com>
…, trans) The relation deserves its characteristic API alongside the definition, and potentialIso_of_equiv is exactly the converse direction that countable_potentialIso_iff_iso consumes: - potentialIso_of_equiv: an isomorphism is a potential isomorphism (S = the restrictions of the isomorphism to finitely generated substructures); - PotentialIso.symm: flip the system along PartialEquiv.symm; - PotentialIso.trans: compose the two systems (composites g o f with f.cod <= g.dom; extend f first, then extend g over the finitely many generators of the new codomain). README Layer-1 bullet and milestone list synced; the countable-corollary docstring now names potentialIso_of_equiv as its converse. lake env lean green (sorry warnings only). Co-Authored-By: Claude Fable 5 <noreply@anthropic.com>
…oth halves) The docstring sketched only the domain-extension half. Now both are recorded: domain extension is "f then g" (extend f to include the element, then extend g over the generators of the enlarged f.cod); codomain extension is "g, f, then g" (extend g so its codomain reaches the element, extend f so its codomain reaches that element's g-preimage, then extend g again over the enlarged f.cod). Also notes Mathlib has no PartialEquiv.comp, so implementation will introduce a small composition-under-(f.cod <= g.dom) helper. Co-Authored-By: Claude Fable 5 <noreply@anthropic.com>
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Important correction since the previous review:
🤖 written by Claude, reviewed by Codex, directed by Cameron |
Summary
Adds
TauCetiRoadmap/InfinitaryLogic/, a grounded roadmap for the first Tau Ceti infinitary-model-theory spine: (1) Lω₁ω / L∞ω syntax and semantics overFirstOrder.Language; (2) the finitary embeddingtoLω+ realization compatibility; (3) back-and-forth / potential isomorphism — an explicit back-and-forth system of MathlibFGEquivs with its basic API (potentialIso_of_equiv,PotentialIso.symm,PotentialIso.trans) and a one-way bridge from Mathlib'sIsExtensionPair— and Karp; (4) the countable coded-formula proxy for the Scott-refinement formulas and refinement counting; (5) Scott's isomorphism theorem for countable relational languages (the v1 summit).This roadmap does not cover admissible sets / Barwise compactness, invariant descriptive set theory (Silver / G₀ / Glimm–Effros, López–Escobar, Morley counting), EM / Erdős–Rado / Morley–Hanf, many-sorted model theory, or Lκλ; those are out of scope here and belong in separate roadmap PRs with their own grounded dependency paths. It also adds a "known WIP, ownership, and boundaries" section — now with links to the four in-flight Zulip threads and a stated rationale for the parallel-inductive prototype. The earlier revision made Layer 0's substitution/relabel/recursion API explicit and added per-layer dependency/acceptance checks; the latest revision corrects the
PotentialIsodefinition (see the correction comment on this thread), pins its basic API, and brings the branch up to date withmain. See the replies on the review thread.Contents
TauCetiRoadmap/InfinitaryLogic/README.md(narrowed roadmap),Suggested.lean(Layer 0/1 elaborating signatures, opened with the standard "README.md is definitive / not exhaustive" note), root index fix: correct stale and fabricated Mathlib paths in roadmap inventories #14, theSuggestedimport.Verification
lake buildgreen (8521 jobs);Suggested.leanelaborates with only the six intendedsorrytargets (realize_toLω,potentialIso_of_equiv,PotentialIso.symm,PotentialIso.trans,potentialIso_of_isExtensionPair,countable_potentialIso_iff_iso) — all definitions carry real bodies (nodef _ : Prop := sorry).9caeba1/ Lean v4.31.0-rc1).Migration source
Pinned at cameronfreer/infinitary-logic
@a1932b9— a migration source and API-warning map, not the specification; the README's "Migration source" section maps it onto the spine layers. The source's Scott theorem is unconditional (itsCountableRefinementHypothesisis discharged sorry-free); its remaining frontiersorry(Erdős–Rado) sits in territory that is out of scope for this PR.Attribution
Cameron Freer wrote this with assistance from GPT Pro, Claude Code, Codex, lean4-skills, and lean-lsp-mcp.
Thanks to @kim-em and @mrdouglasny for helpful reviews.