Ideas on improving AGM_Medical

[lubomirblazekcz]

Well now, when was AGM_Medical rewritten, what about expand it and improve it little more? I have some interesting ideas. I don't want something so complicated as has CSE, but I would welcome if AGM would be little more challenging.

1. Reorganized menu
So that Left arm is on left, right arm on right etc. it's more intuitive.

2. Pressure bandage for heavy injuries
To bandage heavy injury with one bandage, pressure bandage would be needed. When player has both types of bandages, the additional submenu would be opened upon bandaging.
eg. Bandage left arm, select bandage, bandaging

3. Bleedout ?
Not sure if it's possible now to die on low blood. I got the feeling that you will only go unconscious now. But it would be nice addition to bleedout if your injuries are not treated in time. And what about add timer in unconscious, how much blood left? Maybe as option in module.

4. No reaction on epinephrine
Now everyone is applying epinephrine, even that the person has heavy injuries, heavy pain, lost of blood etc. Would be good to implement chance to no reaction on epinephrine, so that medic have to actually treat the patient first, to have insurance that the patient will react on epinephrine.

5. Tourniquet
Maybe it's not needed, I don't know. But what about to slow down the bleeding on limbs with heavy injuries? Or use it as insurance that bandaging will not fail with heavy injuries. (lots of blood)

I think that 2, 3 and 4 could for sure improve the experience for medics and for players.
Maybe this issue can be used as discussion for what could be implemented? Or everyone could add some more ideas?

[Drezzo]

1. I think the Medical UI should get some more love, it's the one you will be looking at the most after all. It would be a lot more pleasant to look at an image instead of text.
   Something more visual like this for example (patient image is from realistic wounding system)
   

In terms of functionality the diagnosis results hint should stay up while performing the treatment imho and refresh after every action, if it can be integrated into a more visual UI even better.

3 Not sure if it's possible now to die on low blood.

There's 2 ways right now:
a. You set prevent death while unconscious to false. If the patient is not bandaged up in time he will die from bloodloss.
Downside is that when unconscious and AI shoot you again you will die. AI often keep shooting you a couple of seconds after you are unconscious.

b. You can keep prevent death while unconscious to true and use the max unconscious time (400seconds instead of -1 for example). Once that timer runs out after being unconscious you will die.
Downside is that even if you treat a patient by bandaging all his wounds and stop the bleeding he will still die if he doesn't wake up before that timer runs out.
Another downside is that this caused ebola. If you went unconscious in a vehicle and were given epi, the timer would continue running regardless. That was fixed in 095 I believe.
So it's not tied to blood levels but a timer every time you go unconscious.

With respawn enabled this isn't really an issue but for people who play with it disabled it can be frustrating.
A good compromise would be to tie the max unconscious time to the bloodlevel so that you can still stabilize people if a medic can't get there in time to give epi. Or a new option to prevent death while unconscious except for dieing from bloodloss.

4 No reaction on epinephrine

There is chance that giving epinephrine without treating people first has a chance to fail. If the patient is heavily bleeding and you give him epi, he will often go unconscious immediately after if you do not bandage him first. I agree that it could be expanded.

[lubomirblazekcz]

About 1, funny thing is that maybe these icons which are with text would be enough. But they are mirrored so left is right and right is left and that is just confusing. I think this way I sorted it, you will always know where is right arm etc. Until now I was always searching what is what.

And about 3 I think it would be enough implement timer, how much blood is left in unconscious. Because without max unconscious time I never experienced death because of blood lost. Because now I have still feeling that unconscious state is infinite.

There is chance that giving epinephrine without treating people first has a chance to fail. If the patient is heavily bleeding and you give him epi, he will often go unconscious immediately after if you do not bandage him first. I agree that it could be expanded.

Yeah I know, but I think it would be much authentic if the patient would not react at all

[BaerMitUmlaut]

But they are mirrored so left is right and right is left and that is just confusing.

Afaik somebody's left leg is the right one if you look at him with him facing you (for example in Drezzo's image the persons left leg is orange), so the icons should be correct. If I remember correctly, this is because it is easier for the patient to describe wounds or pain this way.

[licht-im-Norden87]

I dont think that AGM do have a need of great graphics. The priority must be a usesful and clean user interface. More Pictures would be something like eye candy but nothing what could improve the interface. Your example is nice to look at but after the third or 5th time you dont care about it and just do what you have to do.

[commy2]

Please keep in mind that loading graphics and textures is very unoptimized in Arma. When we introduced the Icons to the Interaction menu, the (inevitable) FPS drop when opening it went from -1 to up to -5 for me (empty VR map).
That means that the most performance impact is not caused by the script checks, but the graphics themselves.

[lubomirblazekcz]

I think that the icons are enough, everything more would be just too complicated, let's keep it simple. I only refer to static organized order, so the labels would be every time on the same place and you would know where to look.

[commy2]

I like the reorganized menu part (mostly because it's easy to do)

[nicolasbadano]

I like the reorganized menu part (mostly because it's easy to do)

I was about to suggest swapping the left and right buttons. But thinking about it, the unconscious animation has wounded soldiers lying face down, so the right arm is on the right side of the medics screen, etc. I would suggest swapping the icons then.

[Sparfell]

1/ Evromalarkey's menu is realy good. What about attributing colors to body parts' names (in menu) after diagnose (don't know if it's possible) ? Red = heavy injury, orange = light injury, with diagnose as the only way to update. Could be a bit more clear than "hint text" (and more visual, as a real diagnostic).
It could also be in addition with hint messages.

2/ Am I wrong if I say that only the patient should be able to see his pain level ?

@Sparfell. Indeed, when unconscious there's no way of telling weather someone is in pain, and not necessary unless performing surgery/reviving with epipen.

@evro, that menu is a great idea. I was confused as to why someone would make a mini-game out of locating the proper body part in the menu. Alas, the right leg/arm should be on the right side of the menu/screen for intuitive location. Body position is irrelevant as you can stand at their head, feet or side.

@devs.
Why not take it all the way? The medical system, as is, seems half-finished to me. How does a bandage heal wounds? The consensus with which I agree is that the medic should have a special job, but common soldiers should be able to use epis and morphine.

The entire current functionality should remain as is, available to everybody. But bandaging should only stop bleeding.

1.)To cure the wounds, a medic would have to perform surgery using a surgical kit only they can use. It should take some time, which will make bandaging first important if bleedout is a concern.

2.)Using morphine second, to stop the pain and thus the patient interrupting the surgical procedure by wiggling(overdose animation) due to pain if conscious would also be important.

3.)Using epipen should take place after applying morphine and bandaging, so that the target doesn't bleed out (epi increases blood flow/bleeding out) and doesn't pass out again due to pain.

Basically what ACE did, and did well.
Optional.)Tourniquets aren't important, but it makes sense to use them during a surgical procedure, since it's hard to operate over a bandage. Performing surgery would then re-start bleeding if patient was bandaged before and tourniquet would be necessary to stabilize him until he can be bandaged again after the procedure.

[nicolasbadano]

@evromalarkey, @Pakislav2

Some of the things you proposed here are being implemented on #1899

1. Reorganized menu
   So that Left arm is on left, right arm on right etc. it's more intuitive.

Done

1. Bleedout ?
   Not sure if it's possible now to die on low blood. I got the feeling that you will only go unconscious now. But it would be nice addition to bleedout if your injuries are not treated in time. And what about add timer in unconscious, how much blood left? Maybe as option in module.

Dying from bleeout was already possible. It took between 5 to 8 minutes to loose enough blood to die from that. Furthermore, it does not happen if prevent death while unconscious is set, which I still want to change,

3.)Using epipen should take place after applying morphine and bandaging, so that the target doesn't bleed out (epi increases blood flow/bleeding out) and doesn't pass out again due to pain.

Now bleeding rate is strongly increased for about a minute after inyecting epinephrine, so there's much more incentive to bandage pacients first.

It also increases due to excersion (running around, crawling, etc), so pacients shouldn't try to move to much when wounded. Finally, as the pacient loses it's blood it has increasing chance of passing out due to excersion, so they should avoid running first and even moving at all when they are very very low on blood.

[lubomirblazekcz]

👍 looks good