There are many different fabrics in our dataset. And many, particularly in Italy, are obscure, having been made by local "tribes" rather than immigrant Greek artists. They are to varying degrees related to the main flow of Greek vases. Greek pots have been influencing Italian ones since at least the 8th C BCE, and Italian pots have had an influence on Greek ones --- particularly vases made by Greeks in Italy. The whole thing is very complicated.
Thomas Mannack suggests we ignore them. I think he's right --- the data are too sparse, the relationships too complicated, dating too poor, and if we include them then there's no stopping anywhere. But I want to include a few striking cases known to have influenced Greek shapes. We could then include them in a phylogeny. Here is a list that I will add to with time.
Messapian nestorides. (nestoris) Adopted by Apulian & Lucanian Greeks who gave them a Black Glaze (Black Painting) & RF makeover.
Etruscan bucchero amphorae. Adopted by Nikosthenes in Athens.
kantharoid vases -- F. Colivicchi claims originated in native Italian ---> Greek Italians (Apulian, Lucanian). These are cups/kraters type things, of which nestorides seem to be a subset. Colvicchi really seems to be making something like a crude phylogeny.
There are many different fabrics in our dataset. And many, particularly in Italy, are obscure, having been made by local "tribes" rather than immigrant Greek artists. They are to varying degrees related to the main flow of Greek vases. Greek pots have been influencing Italian ones since at least the 8th C BCE, and Italian pots have had an influence on Greek ones --- particularly vases made by Greeks in Italy. The whole thing is very complicated.
Thomas Mannack suggests we ignore them. I think he's right --- the data are too sparse, the relationships too complicated, dating too poor, and if we include them then there's no stopping anywhere. But I want to include a few striking cases known to have influenced Greek shapes. We could then include them in a phylogeny. Here is a list that I will add to with time.
Messapian nestorides. (nestoris) Adopted by Apulian & Lucanian Greeks who gave them a Black Glaze (Black Painting) & RF makeover.
Etruscan bucchero amphorae. Adopted by Nikosthenes in Athens.
kantharoid vases -- F. Colivicchi claims originated in native Italian ---> Greek Italians (Apulian, Lucanian). These are cups/kraters type things, of which nestorides seem to be a subset. Colvicchi really seems to be making something like a crude phylogeny.